Injection pour serie essence ?

[tag]

J’ai un carburateur weber 34 sur mon lightweight 2,25 essence et je roule au 95e
J’ai le projet de mettre un SUHif44 à la place du weber avec une pipe d’adaptation HNJ car le moteur peine à haut régime ou dans la boue .
Je souhaiterais rouler à l’éthanol et j’envisage l’injection
Il existe des lit tout faits holley sniper efi
https://www.silverperformance.fr/conver ... 07571.html
Ou un système de classics fuel injection
Ci dessous réponses du vendeur

De: Classic Fuel Injection Ltd <info@classicfuelinjection.co.uk>
Date: 29 janvier 2020 à 11:37:11 UTC+1
À: Alain TAGLIAFERRI <tagliaferri.alain@gmail.com>
Objet: RE: bioéthanol on a landrover 2.25 petrol?

Below I will describe our standard kit that would work for your vehicle.

The ECU we use can be used to tune and run E85 and most of the components in our kit will be E85 compatible.

Things you may need to change for E85 compatibility are

Fuel pipe
Inline Fuel filter ?
Inline Fuel Pump ( I think this is E85 OK but I need to check with Walbro to be certain )

As far as I know the rest of the components are E85 compatible

Below I will describe our Premium Single injector kit which could be used as the basis for your conversion.


** Classic Car Fuel Injection and Electronic Ignition Conversion - Improved Starting, Performance and Fuel Economy **


In short our systems just work, they are not the most complicated, they are easy to fit and just do what you need them to.
There are more technological systems out there at a vast cost increase such as fully sequential injection, full wasted spark systems etc. but for a classic car you do not need all these extra bells and whistles unless you want extra bragging rights in the Pub !.

Our systems are easy to fit, improve starting from cold, prevent the hot starting issues many classics suffer with modern fuels, generally add some more performance, particularly around the mid range and also on many vehicles they improve the fuel economy as well.

I have sold quite a number of these kits to customers for fitment on a wide range of vehicles.
The following I have personally fitted and/or calibrated here in the workshop.
Triumph TR4 - 1963
Studebaker Daytona V8 - 1964
ZIL 6x6 Truck V8 7L
Jensen Interceptor - 1972
Citroen Light 15 - 1952
Triumph Vitesse 2L
Mini 1100cc (classic shape) Automatic
Triumph Stag 3L V8
Triumph TR6 2.5 PI
All of them greatly benefited from the installation.
They all started better, even from cold in the morning.
Typically just turn the key crank and start and then walk away as it warms up and sorts out its idle speed whilst finishing your coffee.
The Triumph and Studebaker felt much more responsive in the mid range and the Studebaker also felt as if it had a load more power at the top end.
The Jensen could just be driven like a modern car.
The Citroen came into the workshop barely running and had all sorts of starting issues. After fitment it was simply a case of turning the key and pushing the start button and away it went.
We can offer various options for your car ( and most other classic cars ).
The simplest option for your car is to use our Premium SU / Stromberg kit.
The kit contains an adaptors that fit between the carbs and the inlet manifold which in turn hold the injectors, have idle air bypass and map sensor ports.
The carburettors are retained simply to act as throttle bodies with all the fuel control carried out by the ECU / injectors.
These premium adaptors are 25mm wide but after removing existing thermal spacers etc. the overall movement of the carburettors compared to standard is typically 10 to 15mm.
This means they will fit most vehicles without issue unless space between carbs and chassis / body is already extremely tight.
Apart from a few nuts and bolts and an odd fabricated bracket all is included
These kits are self adapting so that they learn the fuel required from the O2 sensor readings.
You need a laptop plugged in for the learning process but normally after driving for a few learning trips the system has learnt as much as it need and then the laptop can be removed.

When fitted the entire fuel system, ignition system ( also being converted to full electronic system without contact breakers ) and idle speed control system is all controlled by the ECU with all parameters being fully mappable within the ECU
The advantages of our system is that it is easy to fit and looks virtually standard whilst giving you all the benefits of a fuel injection and electronic ignition system.
Many of the classic cars can also be set to run in closed loop fuelling mode at 14.7:1 Air Fuel Ratio.
The advantage of running at 14.7 AFR is better fuel control, improved fuel economy and much reduced exhaust emissions.
Modern cars of today are all fitted with a exhaust catalyst and run at 14.7 AFR

Running your Classic at 14.7 AFR would mean it is comparable in terms of the UK MOT exhaust emission tests to a much later car.
( MOT Limits based on year -- Pre 1975 no limit , 1975 to 1986 = 4.5% CO, 1986 to 1994 = 3.5% CO, 1995 to 2002 = typical 0.5% CO, 2002 onwards = 0.3% CO )

Running at 14.7 AFR equates to approximately 0.2 % CO
It should then be feasible for your classic car to pass the MOT emissions test used for much later cars of the 1990's or 2000's

You could if you wish also fit an aftermarket exhaust catalyst which would reduce your exhaust emissions further still.
This could reduce your exhaust emissions to be comparable with the MOT emission test used for many of the new cars today.

We have to emphasis in the above we refer to the UK MOT exhaust test limits.
The EU manufacturer limits defined by Euro 1 to Euro 6 encompass many more aspects than the simple exhaust emissions test used in the UK MOT inspection.
Whilst we cannot guarantee your actual emission results, as this is dependant on factors such as vehicle, engine condition and how you set the ECU tuning file, our Classic Fuel Injection system will give you the possibility to significantly reduce your exhaust emissions.
Please visit www.classicfuelinjection.co.uk/gallery for some detailed pictures of many different cars that have been fitted along with example components)
This kit contains all the parts needed for our Classic Fuel Injection system (you do not need to order anything else from our range )
We have assembled this kit for easy ordering but if you prefer you can still order some or all of the parts using our individual listings
Ordering our kits will also save you money, our kits are typically 10 to 15% cheaper than ordering individual parts

This kit contains ( typical contents, exact component count will vary by kit chosen )

Engine ECU
ECU software
ECU to Laptop communication lead
Engine Sensor Kit Comprising -
Throttle Position Sensor
Coolant Temperature Sensor
Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor
Distributor Sensor
Distributor Pickup
Ignition Amplifier
Idle Control Valve
Wide Band Oxygen Sensor Amplifier
Wide Band Bosch Oxygen Sensor
Weld On Oxygen Sensor Boss
Fuel System Kit Comprising -
High Pressure Fuel Pump
Fuel Pump Brackets
Inline Fuel Filter
Fuel Filter Bracket
Fuel Pressure Regulator
10m of High Pressure Fuel Hose
Fuel Hose Clamps
Fuel Injector Kit Comprising -
1 x Siemens Fuel Injector for total engine power upto around 110 BHP ( we can go higher or lower BHP if you require )
1 x Fuel Injector High Pressure Hose Fittings for Fuel Inlet
1 x SU / Stromberg Carburettor Adapters with Injector Mounting Plates
0 x Throttle bodies ( only for DCOE, DGV or V8 TBI option )
1 x Carburettor Adapter Idle Air Hosetail Fittings
0 x Idle Air pipework T piece
Electrical Wiring

Single Injector Classic Fuel Injection wiring loom ready to install
Please note this kit does not contain nuts, bolts and other fixings or adapters as they will be specific to your application but will easily be sourced from your normal suppliers or your existing workshop stock of parts.
We will setup the ECU for you with base maps which should be fine to start and drive the car.
You will probably find that even with these base maps your car drives better than at present.
You can then use the self learning feature of our system to fine tune the fuelling to suit your particular engine.
It is simply a case of plugging in a laptop, pressing a few buttons and then driving the car at which point the ECU will learn the fuel requirements for your engine and adjust accordingly.
After you have repeated this process a few times you should find that the system has learnt as much as it needs to and the car drives as well as it can with the fuelling set to near optimal levels.
Performance wise you should see much better drivability particularly in the mid range, better and smoother idle speed control and a little top end extra power.

Fuel economy wise it will improve, mainly because you are in much better control of the spark advance so can add mid range light load advance to improve economy and also as the fuel control is simply better you can run leaner than the carbs would normally be able to.

On my TR4 I was typically getting between 18 and 20 MPG on my driving style and usage pattern.
After conversion this typically seems to be 23 to 25 MPG for a similar usage pattern.

On my Studebaker V8 I did not get too much improvement on fuel economy but on the other hand it drove so much better and the performance increase was really noticeable.
These were originally around 170 BHP in standard form and based on what it drives like now I would guess power is now upto around 190 / 200 BHP, just by adding the fuel injection system.
Before conversion economy was around 15 MPG and after it was around 16 to 17 MPG

If you are fairly familiar with basic mechanical servicing type work then you should be able to fit this kit in a couple of weekends worth of work, most of it is simple a bolt on exercise to add the new parts.
We can offer an installation service which obviously would need the car here in our workshops.
Installation and calibration service typically starts at £1800 but will vary by exact car and the modification / fitting method that the customer has chosen.
Alternatively we can offer a calibration only service if you prefer to install the system and leave the calibration work to us.
During the calibration process we will need to road test the car so it must be delivered in basically a road legal and driveable condition.
Cost for this premium kit with 1 injectors for engines upto 110 BHP would be £1400 GBP

Alternatively you could mount the fuel injectors into the air cleaners ( see photo as an example ) and then fit using our Universal kit.
Parts list is virtually the same but does not include the carb adaptors.
Performance and benefit wise this will be the same as the premium kit, it is just a different way of mounting.
Cost for this universal kit with 1 injectors for engines upto 110 BHP would be £1350 GBP

( Classic Fuel Injection Ltd are not registered for VAT - This means the price you see is the price you pay without adding any additional taxes )
Package is around 12 to 15 KG so shipping using UPS / Fed Ex or similar as follows
UK shipping = £25
EU shipping typically = £80 to £100 GBP
Rest of World shipping typically = £130 to £200 GBP
All parts in stock ( except wiring loom which is made to order ) so the kit can normally be dispatched within a few days of receiving your order.
Our most popular kits are the Premium twin injector kit and these will fit many different classic cars fitted with either SU or Stromberg carburettors

I hope you find this of interest and I look forward to hearing from you soon
Best regards and many thanks
Kevin Eagling
Classic Fuel Injection Ltd
info@classicfuelinjection.co.uk
07968 448803
www.classicfuelinjection.co.uk

Classic Fuel Injection Ltd,
Unit 7B, Reeds Farm Estate, Writtle,
Chelmsford, CM1 3ST, UK
( Entrance off the A1060. Satnav users please enter CM1 3SA and then follow the signs for Reeds Farm )

Le 28 janv. 2020 à 17:51, Classic Fuel Injection Ltd <info@classicfuelinjection.co.uk> a écrit :

[tag]

Désolé d’être si long mais depuis j’ai trouvé un système de papillon d’accélérateur et je me demande si avec des composants on ne peut pas réaliser un tel système est ce que l’un d’entre vous y a déjà réfléchi ?

[Normand 1400]

Intéressante, ton idée!

Ce qu'il faut avoir en tête, c'est que ce qui s'appelait le papillon des gaz sur un carburateur est aujourd'hui (je parle des injections électroniques) l'organe qui sert à mesurer le débit d'air.

Par ailleurs, pour être réellement efficace, cette vanne « papillon » doit préférentiellement être couplée à un transducteur d'accélérateur (accélérateur électronique) qui commandera électriquement l'ouverture du papillon (sinon la gestion de l'ouverture de la vanne et le dosage en carburant ne seront pas assez précis, notamment lors des phases transitoires) en fonction de la charge demandée au moteur.

Elle a donc la même fonction qu'un débitmètre sur un mazout ; à part qu'elle s'encrasse beaucoup moins vite et peut être nettoyée sans difficultés.

Pour mesurer la masse d'air admise, il faut pouvoir mesurer l'angle d'ouverture du papillon (via un capteur de position) et la perte de charge à la vanne (via un premier capteur situé à l'aval du papillon et un second capteur situé à l'amont).

La difficulté avec ce type de vanne est que sa réponse est particulièrement sensible dans les premiers degrés d'ouverture : il faut donc une électronique de commande et de mesure assez précise.

Je ne suis pas certain que la vanne que tu as trouvé comporte ces trois capteurs.

J'avoue avoir trouvé la présentation du kit assez confuse ; l'idéal aurait été de fournir un schéma qui aurait permis de visualiser le type de gestion exact dont il est question (cela dit, je n'ai pas fouillé en détail sur leur site s'ils en ont un).

Ce qui m'interpelle également, c'est qu'ils semblent beaucoup miser sur « l'apprentissage » du calculateur ; je ne pense pas que ce soit suffisant, notamment pour la phase la plus critique sur un essence : les fortes accélérations. Si ces phases sont mal gérées, tu vas avoir des trous à l'accélération ou lessiver les cylindres. En outre, le comportement du moteur durant ces phases va largement dépendre du positionnement des injecteurs sur le circuit d'admission, car la condensation du brouillard d'essence sera plus ou moins importante.

Lors de ces phases de fortes accélérations, le pilotage du dosage en essence via le λ est désactivé durant quelques instants (c'est pareil sur les injections récentes, même si la phase de gestion « à priori » a été considérablement réduite pour limiter la pollution) donc le calculateur ne peut plus piloter le système par rétroaction.

A noter qu'une gestion électronique peut se montrer plus agressive pour les soupapes d'un moteur ancien, surtout avec de l'éthanol à haute dose. D'où l'intérêt d'avoir une injection de qualité pour mieux maîtriser le risque.

A suivre!

[The Pater]

Ce qu'il faut avoir en tête, c'est que ce qui s'appelait le papillon des gaz sur un carburateur est aujourd'hui (je parle des injections électroniques) l'organe qui sert à mesurer le débit d'air.

Que cela soit un carburateur ou une injection, le papillon sert toujours, en premier lieu à réguler le débit d'air sur un moteur à allumage commandé (essence dans ce cas). C'est une vanne.

Un moteur essence fonctionne toujours proche du rapport stoechiométrique entre l'air et l'essence. grosso modo pour une bonne combustion c'est approximativement 15 g d'air pour 1 g d'essence. Sans papillon, ou tout autre système de régulation du débit d'air, tu ne pourras pas faire varier la charge sur le moteur, donc la puissance à ta guise. cela sera comme avoir le pied à fond sur l'accélérateur tout le temps... si le moteur fonctionne.

Pour les moteurs à injection:

Dans certains cas le débit d'air est mesuré par un système annexe (capteur fil chaud (DI Motronic par exemple), disque qui se déplace sous le debit d'air et relié à un potentionmètre (K-Jetronic par exemple), etc....)
Le papillon de sert qu'à faire varier le débit d'air et donc la charge, mais il ne sert pas de capteur de débit d'air.

Dans d'autre, comme sur ma moto, c'est la position angulaire du papillon et le régime de rotation du moteur qui permet de calculer le débit d'air.

A+

[tag]

Le Holley sniper Efi autolite 1100 a l’air de répondre aux bons conseils fournis avec mesure du debit, de l’ouverture du papillon , de la temperature d’eau, d’une sonde lambda.
J’ai recupéré le dessin du pied de fixation pour voir si c’est compatible avec le collecteur de ma série
NAO fait de la restauration de véhicules et les équipe de ce systeme
https://www.northamericaoverland.com/restoration/